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Front brake torque arm dilemma

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  • Front brake torque arm dilemma

    My Venom project came with nice alloy wheel rims .... laced into the front wheel is a nice NORTON twin leading shoe brake and hub, it was pointed out to me by a pal in the UK, the Velocette brake plate has a slot for the torque arm / stud to locate into. The Norton brake plate has no such slut .... just the typical stud. Does anyone else in the Forum have a similar brake fitted ....and how did they solve the torque arm issue.

  • #2
    A photo would be a big help here. I haven't done that particular combination, but I have done one 'mating' a BSA TLS brakeplate (stud) to forks with a different brakeplate stop arrangement.
    Does it look like you could fabricate a fitting to connect the Velo slider 'tongue' with the Norton stud?
    I'll ask Uncle Norm, he might know, as he did a few Norton / Velo specials (though I think they were mainly Velo motors in featherbed frames -probably using Roadholders.
    BTW, those Norton TLS brakes are in VERY high demand... the other option is to look for a swap.

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    • #3
      I do not have the Velo "tongue " , one is available from my pal in the UK, sans the tongue I'm not sure how much a photo would help .... but I can still shoot a pic. and see what juices flow!.
      I have some ideas swirling around my noggin, just wondered if anyone had an " instant " solution ....not the project is anywhere near getting onto the road !!. This all came to light when I asked my pal why the upper of two holes in the lower fork leg brackets was larger than the lower hole .... I sent him a photo of the lower fork leg .... eagle eye spotted the Norton TLS brake and pointed out the possible problem !. Uncle Norm's reply will be interesting !. Hope that you are away from the fires ! ??

      Last edited by LImeyrider; 01-03-2020, 03:30 PM.

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      • #4
        Not sure if I got this right ...uploading the photo I mean. Norton TLS in Velo forks ... the torque arm stud is between the fork leg and mudguard stay, the Velo " tongue " would be located behind the fork leg .... as you probably already know !

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        • #5
          Photo is fine.
          Whilst I was worried sick about best mate Paul caught in Mallacoota, a fire started just up the road a few k's away from here. Luckily aircraft and about 25 units responded quickly and within some tense hours it was out. Lack of wind saved us I reckon, it was still. Bullet dodged! Apparently Paul saved his house, but it's predicted to fire up again today in Mallacoota.

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          • #6
            Glad that you are safe .... we have a lot of coverage on TV here in the US, I have a friend in Melbourne who keeps me up to date with the situation, she has family in NSW.
            I think that I have a solution to the brake torque arm ..... as long as I can work around the brake cable adjuster abutment !.

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            • #7
              THX mate.
              Velocette conveniently supplied that nice big triangular plate for a mount for the cable abutment! Wonder if that would align laterally. Incidentally it would be interesting to know how the wheel spindle adapts to the Velo fork sliders. (And once you get it done we should get this into the MODS section).

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              • #8
                I don't have the triangular plate that you mention, is it / was it attached to the fork leg ? wheel hub ?.
                It may be a happy coincidence, but the wheel spindle is original Velocette, the Norton hub contains all of the original Norton parts ...bearings, spacers etc. .... so no problem with fitting to the Velo forks .

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                • #9
                  Fabricated a short " dog leg " arm, close to the fork leg .... but ok, will need to put a washer twixt the arm and the fork leg locating bolt hole
                  I'll turn down a 7/16 " high tensile bolt to 5/16 dia. , leaving .600" length at 7/16 " dia . up to the bolt head.
                  With the hex bolt head on the inside, the plain 7/16" diameter of the bolt will pass through the torque arm and the larger hole on the fork leg , the diameter that I turn down will be threaded 5/16" to hold the mudguard stay , cut the bolt down to length ..... Bob's yer Uncle !....or Norm !! .... Did I overlook anything ??.

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                  • #10
                    As you say... Norm's yer uncle. Good solution that should work, nice and short, so little chance of flex. As long as it can't hold the brakeplate at a misaligned angle when it's tightened up.
                    Some torque arms allow a little flex to avoid this.
                    The triangular plate I was referring to is the mudguard stay plate.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks mate, I spun the front wheel as I slowly tightened each of the torque arm nuts .... the one on the fork leg is a temporary bolt...but all was well, no binding or odd sounds from the brake plate, the real test will be on the road with weight and speed ( moderate ! ), I could knock up a second arm made from thinner stock if rigidity is a problem .... we'll see how it all pans out, for now, I'm happy.

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                      • #12
                        Excellent Limeyrider, sounds good. Just a reminder of the 'centralising' trick, of holding the front brake on hard whilst you tighten things up down there, applies to spindle as well, which ensures that the brake shoes (and brakeplate) are aligned with the drum track - as far as possible anyway.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks joolstacho .... I need a front brake cable , suitable for clip on bars and the Norton brake .... time to talk to the boys at Norvil / Andover Norton.....or make my own

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                          • #14
                            Interesting response from Uncle Norm:

                            "Quick reply re fitting a TLS brake into the Velo forks. You can’t fit the Norton brake into a Velo hub but you can fit a complete Norton hub with brake into the Velo forks. Problems are 1. Norton axle is bigger diameter than Velo. 2. Norton hub is narrower than Velo. 3. Lug for cable adjustment on Norton ends up in awkward position 4. Difficult to get a neat way of attaching brake stop on Norton to the brake stop hole in the Velo forks. I have fitted a hub into Velo forks using loose Velo axle and can take some photos of problem areas if this would help. It’s not impossible but requires some careful planning and machining to get a reasonable result. If the Velo axle wasn’t ahead of the fork legs it would be a lot easier.
                            Regards for now
                            Norm".

                            Interesting as he says- the Norton spindle is bigger diameter. - Possible that the PO adapted it to fit Velo sliders before you got it. Anyway it seems you've pretty well got it sussed anyway.
                            Cable, you'd probably never get one that's right for your conversion so DIY? Once you've done it, no cable is ever a problem again!

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                            • #15
                              Thanks for that reply joolstacho, sounds like Uncle Norm has run across that before !. The cable adjuster lug is in a bit of an awkward position .... but once adjusted ....how often will I be fiddling with that ! ?.... I'm not sure if the PO adapted the Norton hub to accept the Velo spindle, i.e. bearings / inner spacers etc.
                              There are a couple of spacers ...one on either side of the hub that may be making up the difference in width ....one is a plain" heavy washer " type on the right hand side, the other is a narrow " top hat " .
                              The cable would need to be the "heavy duty" type as sold by Andover Norton specifically for the TLS brake .... had one on my 650 SS..... pretty stout !.

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